poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  redditch born on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:12 am

RUFC wrote:The Pitch Is being heavy rolled today by contractors and already we can see a huge difference. Very Happy


There goes our winning run!! Very Happy
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  rawlings09 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:10 am

allotmentender wrote:
rawlings09 wrote:The Valley stadium pitch, as it is now, won't stop us winning the league and unless i'm mistaken it's still very much the same pitch that we won a double promotion on back in the 2002-03 2003-04 seasons?


Double promotion??? We went from step 3 to step 2, if we didn't win the play off we would've ended up winning the league and staying at step 3!!!!

Back to the original question, how can a dodgy pitch stop you winning the league, learn how to use it and it will help you win the league surely!!!!

I don't know! i thought we won double promotion? my mistake Very Happy
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  allotmentender on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:06 pm

rawlings09 wrote:
allotmentender wrote:
rawlings09 wrote:The Valley stadium pitch, as it is now, won't stop us winning the league and unless i'm mistaken it's still very much the same pitch that we won a double promotion on back in the 2002-03 2003-04 seasons?


Double promotion??? We went from step 3 to step 2, if we didn't win the play off we would've ended up winning the league and staying at step 3!!!!

Back to the original question, how can a dodgy pitch stop you winning the league, learn how to use it and it will help you win the league surely!!!!

I don't know! i thought we won double promotion? my mistake Very Happy

It depends which way you look at it.

2003/04
Step 1 - Conference Premier
Step 2 - Southern League Premier
Step 3 - Southern League Western (which we won)

2004/05
Step 1 - Conference Premier
Step 2 - Conference North (Which we were in)
Step 3 - Southern Premier
Step 4 - Southern League Western

So, yes we did bypass the Southern League Premier, therefore one way of looking at it is that we went up 2 divisions.
Or you could say we got promoted from step 3 to step 2!!!

Note - I know that below the Conference Premier there's other leagues involved, I just used the ones that involved us!!!
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  rawlings09 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:12 pm

I wasn't there when this happened, so i'm therefore, clueless clown

Back to the main point: The only way the pitch will stop us having success is if it ends up 3g and the F.a don't change the rules Smile
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  redditch born on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:51 pm

rawlings09 wrote:I wasn't there when this happened, so i'm therefore, clueless clown

Back to the main point: The only way the pitch will stop us having success is if it ends up 3g and the F.a don't change the rules Smile

In your opinion? My opinion look at the clips I think its a load of boll*cks 3g kiss of death
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:00 am

redditch born wrote:
rawlings09 wrote:I wasn't there when this happened, so i'm therefore, clueless clown

Back to the main point: The only way the pitch will stop us having success is if it ends up 3g and the F.a don't change the rules Smile

In your opinion? My opinion look at the clips I think its a load of boll*cks 3g kiss of death

I agree with you mate, i'd very much like to see the valley and football played on a well looked after grass pitch.
I've always maintained that 3g pitches are an excellent training facility and income stream. According to articles, the inroduction of these 3g pitches or plastic grass wasn't too popular last time, but times may have moved on.

It's just a gamble as to whether the F.A change their rules... If the rules stay the same regarding f.a cup games and not being able to get promoted with one then we're doomed. That's when the pitch stops us having success amd we'll have to settle for finishing just outside playoffs year in, year out.
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  allotmentender on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:00 pm

rawlings09 wrote:

I agree with you mate, i'd very much like to see the valley and football played on a well looked after grass pitch.
I've always maintained that 3g pitches are an excellent training facility and income stream. According to articles, the inroduction of these 3g pitches or plastic grass wasn't too popular last time, but times may have moved on.

It's just a gamble as to whether the F.A change their rules... If the rules stay the same regarding f.a cup games and not being able to get promoted with one then we're doomed. That's when the pitch stops us having success amd we'll have to settle for finishing just outside playoffs year in, year out.

As far as the main pitch goes, it's a no brainer. If at the moment, it means we can't get promoted or enter the FA Cup (always a potential money earner. Every year since Merthyr, i've said this is the year Wink ) I don't see the point of even considering it until the rules change!!!!

Even then, i'd say no, but not that strongly Wink
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  in2thevalley on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:21 pm

For what's it's worth........... Train on the artifical surface, play on grass.
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  ted striker on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:04 pm

in2thevalley wrote:For what's it's worth........... Train on the artifical surface, play on grass.

Don't you think that training on a different pitch from the one we play on will mean that we lose a significant part of the home advantage of knowing the conditions?

I'm not saying that's my opinion, I'm just playing devil's advocate (albeit with slightly less wooden acting than Keanu Reeves managed).

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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:12 pm

ted striker wrote:

Don't you think that training on a different pitch from the one we play on will mean that we lose a significant part of the home advantage of knowing the conditions?

Advantage of knowing the conditions... is there such a thing? I personally don't think there is.

You'd think that training twice a week every week and playing every other week on our pitch would make us adapt to the surface and give us the upper hand, this hasn't proved the case... even when we trained on grass then had that friendly against earlswood, we played football... so where you train and where you play has little relavance.

Training on a 3g would certainly save the pitch.
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  Leethall on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:00 pm

I for one would rather see football played on grass but the idea of 4g is a good one to consider.

It does not matter if there is grass on the pitch or not, basic football skills are simple. Pass, control the ball, move into space, pass etc. The thread about Derby and other sides throughout the years playing on paddy fields etc shows it can be done.

If you cannee do the basics then you won't be able to play on any surface. Maybe it is just to do with confidence, basics of passing, controlling the ball etc are simple.

Therefore it is simples Wink
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  del boy on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:02 pm

ted striker wrote:
in2thevalley wrote:For what's it's worth........... Train on the artifical surface, play on grass.

Don't you think that training on a different pitch from the one we play on will mean that we lose a significant part of the home advantage of knowing the conditions?

I'm not saying that's my opinion, I'm just playing devil's advocate (albeit with slightly less wooden acting than Keanu Reeves managed).


Interesting, but I don’t think that you can have the advantage of knowing the condition / run of our pitch when it’s so hard to maintain any kind of consistency.

Several Premier League clubs have training pitches that are (as far as possible) identical to their stadiums pitches. Coincidence? Of course not! There is obviously a benefit between training regularly and playing your home games on a near identical pitch. Training and playing at the Valley on a grass pitch doesn’t give this advantage because the club can not consistently maintain the quality and condition of a grass pitch.

If the club was to have an artificial pitch at the Valley, then it can train on it and play competitive games on it with guaranteed consistency.….this can only be an advantage. And when they are not training on it, they can rent the pitch out for somebody else to train on / use ! ££££££! ...and with no detriment to the quality of the pitch.

I know that I’ve started a previous thread on this, but to use "3G pitch" was a bit ‘behind the times‘; 4G pitches are the latest thing!! The quality of artificial pitches is now better than what Studley have and will continue to improve year on year. If people only ever stick with tradition, there will be no progress.

I don’t think the club should ‘gamble’ and install an artificial turf before it’s approved by the FA. But I think that it’s sensible to recognise the fact that 1) R.B.C. are unlikely to allow a new artificial pitch to be built anywhere adjacent to the club. 2) The footballing authorities are likely to relax their rules on the use of artificial pitches and 3) the building of a modern artificial pitch is essential for the club.

And by the way, some of the top stadiums / clubs in England no longer use 100% natural turf. They use hybrid pitches of artificial turf and grass …that’s progress!!!!
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:39 pm

Del, you're right the top teams do have a percentage of artificial grass, Arsenal, Spurs and Wembley pitches use it, and the results are flawless, however, they have a team of 5 or 6 groundstaff on there as soon as the players are off it.

It puzzles me when people say "the 3g pitch won't deteriate" well they aren't bulletproof and with more use, comes more potential damage. 1 hour of maintenance to every 10 hours of use is the general maintenance rule. Machinery isn't cheap, repairs aren't cheap and if it falls into disrepair, then nobody will hire it and it won't make any money, it's something i'm very much interested in and would like to help maintain it (if it ever happens). Blades will have to be banned, you might aswell play in iceskates.

There's 2 things that i'd consider, 1) is it CERTAIN that the F.A change the rules. 2) What happens when every club in england (if people think that artificial pitches are the future of the game) has one, ours will be built earlier than most other clubs, so it will then become the oldest, while other clubs build the latest technological pitches, ours will stay the same, it's the same with most things look at the first iphone when they came out, now look at the newest version, eventually you'll lose the competition/novelty factor, eventually, retro grass will make a comeback, i can see it happening!

Plastic is the end Wink
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  del boy on Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:27 pm

The initial construction cost is expensive because you have to level the ground, prepare the base, build the surrounding paths, fences etc. But these are one off costs. It is recommended that a percentage of income from these pitches is saved so that when the time comes to renew the surface, the club should already have the money in place. The cost to refurbish the pitch will not be the same as building it again from scratch. These pitches will follow a cycle, they are not designed to last forever.

In reality, I’m pretty sure that there will be some (many) clubs that won’t bother saving for this inevitability. That’s their problem!!!!

Yes, there are construction costs, maintenance costs, renewal costs etc. But the evidence is that these pitches are financially viable and profitable. There are plenty of articles on the net that support this.
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  redditch born on Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:15 pm

del boy wrote:The initial construction cost is expensive because you have to level the ground, prepare the base, build the surrounding paths, fences etc. But these are one off costs. It is recommended that a percentage of income from these pitches is saved so that when the time comes to renew the surface, the club should already have the money in place. The cost to refurbish the pitch will not be the same as building it again from scratch. These pitches will follow a cycle, they are not designed to last forever.

In reality, I’m pretty sure that there will be some (many) clubs that won’t bother saving for this inevitability. That’s their problem!!!!

Yes, there are construction costs, maintenance costs, renewal costs etc. But the evidence is that these pitches are financially viable and profitable. There are plenty of articles on the net that support this.

Rubbish if you had had the state of the art pitch installed 5 years ago it would now be obsolite as said with the iPhones it will be so in another 5 years Mr swan will make a big big mistake if he goes down this road and as for plastic well? A bit like Christmas trees yeh they look alright but not the same as a real one!
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  rawlings09 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:29 am

I'd like to have one at the club just for the income stream and training facility for the player, matches for other youth/girls/whoever else. And the first team pitch staying as grass, 1 team using it once a week maximum will do it no harm atall. I've been looking into this and have found some interesting articles

"A key motivation when choosing an artificial pitch, ahead of its natural counterpart, is the increased playability it allows, and the potential revenues that can be generated as a result. However, unless you implement a maintenance programme directly proportionate to the benefits you are hoping to achieve, you could find yourself in something of a Catch-22 situation; with a pitch that is in such poor condition from lack of maintenance that nobody wants to hire it. Yet, without the income from letting your pitch, you cannot afford the specialist deep-clean that will restore its condition and playability, and thereby encourage bookings"

"Of equal influence when deciding how to approach the maintenance needs of your artificial pitch are more practical considerations, such as available budgets, performance requirements and proposed usage levels, together with the resources at your disposal (time, money, expertise) that you will need to sustain your pitch at a consistently high quality throughout its life"

"You could choose to project-manage the full maintenance requirements of your artificial pitch in-house. To do this correctly requires a large initial budget (in the region of £20,000) in order to purchase a suitable machine"

"If you are assuming that the outsourced maintenance of your artificial pitch will cost less to maintain than a natural grass surface, then you could well be disappointed. However, an annual budget in the region of £7,500 should provide you with a comprehensive maintenance service that will help to enable your pitch to be used for around forty-five hours a week, which equates to approximately £3.20 for every hour that the pitch is in use"

"As with natural grass, time and effort is required to effectively maintain an artificial pitch, and the necessary knowledge of the construction and maintenance requirements of these facilities should form part of any grounds team's skill set.

"For every ten hours of use on an artificial pitch, one hour should be allocated for maintenance and, if you follow this rule from day one, a successful maintenance programme can help you maximise the return on your investment and enjoy many years of use from your artificial sports pitch"

Got to be well looked after, although around £30,000 before the pitch is even built is alot of money, and if the ground is going to be levelled off, why not just grass seed it for a perfectly flat grass pitch Wink

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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

Post  in2thevalley on Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:02 am

ted striker wrote:
in2thevalley wrote:For what's it's worth........... Train on the artifical surface, play on grass.

Don't you think that training on a different pitch from the one we play on will mean that we lose a significant part of the home advantage of knowing the conditions?

I'm not saying that's my opinion, I'm just playing devil's advocate (albeit with slightly less wooden acting than Keanu Reeves managed).

I know where you are coming from Ted. My point is that by training on the artificial surface it will save the pitch. And IMO football should be played on grass. ( perhaps I'm old fashioned in that respect)
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Re: poll Do you think the pitch will stop us having as much success as Derby did on the old baseball ground?

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