FOOTBALL..... its in the name

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FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ROWLY1971 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:54 am

Please dont think, that after my 1st game in a while Im the font of all knowledge of RUFC, or that this is an Anti-Hyde post.
The West Brom Topic seems to of turned down the 'famous striker partnerships' road, just as Tuesdays football style was becoming popular, so thats the ONLY reason Ive started this Topic.
Please read and judge AFTER.

Tuesday night I went to the West Brom game wondering if we were going to see a lot of youth and give them vital experience or go 1st team strong with a few youth to enjoy the experience.
I must say I was pleased that 1st team strong was opted for.

I was also disappointed quite early on in the 1st half as our tactics were clear to see. Whack it up to Deabill and hope he might be able to flick it on. If he did then hope again that Osbourne was in the same vicinity.
West Brom collected every ball off their Keeper and passed from there on. Yes sometimes they went long, but you could count on 1 hand when they did. A lot of their passages of play involved good movement and several players all touching the ball keeping it on the deck.

When we got the ball back we either looked for Deabill straight away, or within the next 2 passes.
Sometimes Garvs had a run against a very good right back, and sometimes Jones did the same against a lesser left back.
In between these options though there seemed very little composure or control of possession.
West Brom closed yes, but majority of the time stood off and concentrated on getting a better shape about themselves. Instead of enjoying these moments or the football, and patiently probing for a break through we seemed too content to try and gain yardage by kicking long and pushing out.

Now I dont think this was a cup game high on the clubs expectation list of winning. I doubt we were the favourites going into the game either. So bemused even more am I that with these facts in mind that we didnt PLAY more football.
Get the ball down and enjoy it. TRY and play football. TRY and get into good habits. Fail? Big deal! We lost 4-1 playing very little actual football, and even less exciting football. I for 1 would of been happier walking back up the hill having been beaten 6 or 7-1 or 2 but after TRYING to play football!

At the end of the day, its not that hard. All the players are footballers and have a UEFA A CLASS coach training them.

I hope lessons were learnt last night and will be taken on board and put into practice asap.

West Brom were good and deserved the win, but not good enough NOT to TRY and play FOOTBALL against!
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  porrohman on Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:24 am

I don't disagree Rowly with most of that. Get it on the deck and play. I watched Brighton v West ham on Monday, what a lovely team Brighton are to watch. However, have we got the players good enough to play that type of game? Or should I say 'enough' players to play that type of game. To me you need 6/7 players to be comfortable on the ball and keep possesion. Can we get 6/7 players like that? To be honest 9 out of 10 teams in our league / level play like we do.
I think the idea is to get it to the centre forward to hold it up, then find runners by passing him. It's a bit in the air at the minute which rules that out I know. We are getting there though.Second half was better I thought as the front two played closer together.The number 9 held the ball up well for OMG's goal last night, lets' not forget that.Long balls in a straight line from defence to attack don't work. Our defence were guilty of that a few times last night.
Good discussion point.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  Redditchbluenose86 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:51 am

ROWLY1971 wrote:Please dont think, that after my 1st game in a while Im the font of all knowledge of RUFC, or that this is an Anti-Hyde post.
The West Brom Topic seems to of turned down the 'famous striker partnerships' road, just as Tuesdays football style was becoming popular, so thats the ONLY reason Ive started this Topic.
Please read and judge AFTER.

Tuesday night I went to the West Brom game wondering if we were going to see a lot of youth and give them vital experience or go 1st team strong with a few youth to enjoy the experience.
I must say I was pleased that 1st team strong was opted for.

I was also disappointed quite early on in the 1st half as our tactics were clear to see. Whack it up to Deabill and hope he might be able to flick it on. If he did then hope again that Osbourne was in the same vicinity.
West Brom collected every ball off their Keeper and passed from there on. Yes sometimes they went long, but you could count on 1 hand when they did. A lot of their passages of play involved good movement and several players all touching the ball keeping it on the deck.

When we got the ball back we either looked for Deabill straight away, or within the next 2 passes.
Sometimes Garvs had a run against a very good right back, and sometimes Jones did the same against a lesser left back.
In between these options though there seemed very little composure or control of possession.
West Brom closed yes, but majority of the time stood off and concentrated on getting a better shape about themselves. Instead of enjoying these moments or the football, and patiently probing for a break through we seemed too content to try and gain yardage by kicking long and pushing out.

Now I dont think this was a cup game high on the clubs expectation list of winning. I doubt we were the favourites going into the game either. So bemused even more am I that with these facts in mind that we didnt PLAY more football.
Get the ball down and enjoy it. TRY and play football. TRY and get into good habits. Fail? Big deal! We lost 4-1 playing very little actual football, and even less exciting football. I for 1 would of been happier walking back up the hill having been beaten 6 or 7-1 or 2 but after TRYING to play football!

At the end of the day, its not that hard. All the players are footballers and have a UEFA A CLASS coach training them.

I hope lessons were learnt last night and will be taken on board and put into practice asap.

West Brom were good and deserved the win, but not good enough NOT to TRY and play FOOTBALL against!

I completely agree.
Although there were a fair few decent spells of football from Reds, it was usually ended with a wild hit and hope which would run harmlessly through to their keeper.
Ditch the hoofball and keep possession. This is why our players are running on empty 80mins onwards from chasing the longball.
Yes, WBA were clearly of a higher calibre, but they passed the ball superbly and made us run round in circles when trying to win back the ball. Simple football that tired us early, allowing the game to be wrapped up comfortably in the final 10 mins.

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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ROWLY1971 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:00 am

Getting 6 or 7 players to play Football this way for Redditch cant be too much of an ask can it?

Im not interested in the majority or what others do, Im interested when I pay to go and see Redditch what WE do and what we TRY to do and how we TRY and play.
If we need to be brave enough to buck a boring trend, then lets be brave enough todo it!
Evesham dont play nice football and arent above us, so why do people think just because its the common way its also the right way, safest way or indeed best way?

If your PLAN A is hoofball, then PLAN B and PLAN C is also hoofball!

If PLAN A is football the football, and for 80 mins it hasnt worked, PLAN B can be either be carry on PLAN A and be brave, or for final 10 mins bomb a box, but at least it gives you an option.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:18 am

I prefer the positive Rowly.

I agree, with the right players, we could pass alot of teams to death, and teams that play hoofball are much easier to play football against because it becomes predictable and you just leave 2 back to wait for the long ball then play it out wide or whatever.

I think we need 6 players who can pass and stay comfortable with the ball, 2 in defence, 3 in the middle and 1 striker. The rest of the team will be made up of ball winners (Tommy Warmer I love you ) and a solid keeper.

Playing the passing game only works with patience i think, if a player gets bored, or a goal is conceded, they'll panic and resort to hoofball.

Hope lessons were learnt just by watching west brom play yesterday and the points can be taken into training and worked on. Definately against the U21's on saturday!
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  del boy on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:39 am

I agree with the old cliché that “football is a simple game complicated by idiots”. But it’s still not quite that simple. You still need to have talented players.

Put Redditch against a team from a lower standard and we’ll see the team playing football the right way; plenty of movement, passing etc. Put The Reds against a team of a higher standard and we are going to struggle.

I think you have to give credit to the opposition. If you are against a team that is fitter, faster and more organised, then you are going to struggle to play good football. A good team will mark us out of the game. A good team will quickly close down our players. A good team will hound and harass us and not give us a second on the ball. When this happens, it’s not as if our players can’t play good football, it’s just that they are being prevented from playing good football.

Last night, WBA were better in every department and simply stopped us from playing football. As I said, you have to give credit to the opposition and you can’t simply blame our players for not trying.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ROWLY1971 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:44 am

rawlings09 wrote:
I prefer the positive Rowly.


Hope lessons were learnt just by watching west brom play yesterday and the points can be taken into training and worked on. Definately against the U21's on saturday!

Just cus people thought I was here to knock and knock alone, doesnt mean my previous posts didnt have an air of positivity about them or a passion for the club to do well.

TBH I am very disappointed with Hyde. A coach of his paper level should not employ hoofball as Plan A against the Baggies last night, and should of been telling the lads all the hardwork and ballwork in training lately will be ideal tonight as we are not under pressure to win AND they will allow you time on the ball. After watching what I did last night I left with the firm belief the players there are NOT being told that, taught that, or trained that. I may be wrong, but I think we are a team being blended into the style and weakness of others..... Hoofball.

Saturday will be another opportunity to show the crowd the style of football the players are being encouraged and trained to play. Will it be a game where the ball and therefore the games control and tempo is dictated by the 1st team like it should be, or a game where the youth are the ones trying to play the correct way while the 1st brush up on hoofball and get ready for the style needed for what is believed to be the survival system of the league we are in.

Remember Hyde... Saturdays performance is FAR FAR more important than the result study
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ROWLY1971 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:54 am

del boy wrote:Last night, WBA were better in every department and simply stopped us from playing football. As I said, you have to give credit to the opposition and you can’t simply blame our players for not trying.

I for 1 did not say credit shouldnt go to west brom. I said they thoroughly deserved the win. I also said that for however good they were, they were not TOO GOOD that we could not TRY and play football.
Not once did I hear a cry from our dugout to 'KEEP BALL'
I believe we were sent out with a hoofball plan and pretty much (not entirely no) kept to it.
Dont forget a sides performance is of the managers making.

The balls round, it rolls very nicely to team mates when passed.
Kits are of 2 different colours per game to help the players determine team mates and opposition, thus making the above even easier.
I just think that last night was a HUGE opportunity missed by Hyde to stamp his footballing ethos onto a cup game.
The scary part though might very well be.....that infact he DID!
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  porrohman on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:08 am

I don't think you can stamp your footballing ethos in one game, it takes time. I saw Hydey kick the floor last night when a long ball from our centre half went aimlessly to their keeper. Players don't always do what they are told/coached, when they cross that white line you can't kick it for them.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ROWLY1971 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:15 am

Whn I said stamp your ethos on 1 game, I did not mean any previous plans had to be re-written cus it was west brom in a cup game. I meant Hyde has now been coaching 'his' team long enough now for his wishes to be coming through, and last night, with no points at stake AND against a side who before a ball was kicked stood a chance of letting you play yourselves if so wished, was an ideal opportunity in my opinion to sod the result and get into good Fotballing habits. 1 we clearly did not take, and my point being..... Looks like we did not TRY to or even INSTRUCTED to try to.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:57 am

Lets leave Hydey for a moment... let's all shout at Fenners!! Wink

Just kidding! They may have lost the chance yesterday but they have another chance on Saturday.

Hopefully the good habits are drilled in.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  Redditchbluenose86 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:06 am

There's no game Saturday Point and laugh

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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  Leethall on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:13 am

Agree with this thread and at points we tried to play football. The Redditch right back I thought was good and tried getting forward but we just don't have the players in centre midfield or on the wings that can make things happen. The left winger although he scored is not good enough and even though he was up against a quality right back v West Brom he is shocking.

I also have to admit that Graham Hyde needs to realise that he is in charge of non league footballers and to stop moaning as much as he does. Also all I hear from him is f*c*ing this, Aaron/Cameron f*c*ing that which is not good all around.

At the end of the day football is simples, look at Barcelona and how they get all of the teams from youth through to senior to play football, awesome to watch but the pass and move way is simple. Problem is that it is not coached into youngsters unfortunately in this country albeit I was impressed with West Brom last night and you can see how they want to play the game
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  nevergreen on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 am

I think it would be obvious to anyone who has watched these sort of matches to realise what WBA were going to bring to the table..very well organised...skillful..fit...hungry young team looking to play football. For the most part i thought we held are own through long periods of the game, i wouldn't say our defence looked overally concerned until last 10 mins.

Also our goal came from a good footballing move, technically the best goal of the night? So not all bad.

I do however think that it still appears as though we're a long way off getting a settled team, i think we need to stabilise soon or I fear we will be dragged into a relegation dog fight
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  porrohman on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:52 am

To be fair Lee all I ever do when Fifa Moses Garvey and Cameron Jones are playing is swear about them as well.
As in ' FFS Head against wall Cameron why are you on the left touchline when the ball is on the right touchline?'
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  redditch born on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:13 pm

As much as I like to watch passing football you cant play that at our level 1, the pitches wont let you 2, if you had a player who could he wouldnt be playing for £60 a game so imo lets do it the wimbledon way and get stuck in and work our socks off? did it under Gary Whild and we had our moments
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ROWLY1971 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:15 pm

I tend to disagree RB.
I dont think the ability to be able to pass a ball along the ground drags money into the equation
The pitches are better than levels below, so I think the standard of pitches is an easy kop out. It might not be Emirates but good enough to pass a ball on. West Brom proved that!

I think its simply down to the coach wanting to play that way instead of hoofball, and being brave enough to introduce it to the team to take onto the pitch.
It may be harder finding a footballer rather than a 6'5 unit who can head all day, but surely the effort in the search is worth it.

hoofball v football.... only ever 1 winner
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  alottmentender on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:21 pm

i have to disagree that the pitches are not good enouth to play football on,i have been to all the games that the reds have palyed this season and the pitches are some of the best i have seen at this level,they are far better than those of the blue square north that i have seen over the past few seaons,i much prefer to see us trying to play football than the big hoof up to the big man all the time.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  mattim on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:09 pm

Well I must say this thread is very civilized, no rantings and falling out with each other and name calling. It's been an interesting and constructive read so far.

Keep up the good work like this and this forum can get back to what it should be.

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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:50 pm

For those that went to watch us play Stratford away a couple of weeks back will disagree that pitches at this level are bad! That pitch is immaculate for 90% of the season and i think it's to do with the fact that Birmingham City Ladies use that as their home ground and put money into the upkeep of it, also the chairman is quite high up the order at the golf club so he could seek advice from green keepers and the sets of inbuilt sprinkler system either side. Maybe worth trying to poach blues ladies and get them playing at The Valley again? Extra income? I think they average about 450 a game.

I digress. Football is easier to play on bowling green surfaces, however i think we should have the advantage playing on a bobbly pitch and we're on it every other week.

I think if this forum is read by the powers that be, these points will be taken into consideration.

I don't think anyone can say we played badly last night?

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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  redditch born on Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:55 pm

Pitches ok now but wont be after a bit of rain, Call me sad but ill rather watch Stoke City play than Barcalona! 100 mph, all working together, getting stuck in, a few kicks, proper football!!!!! and we got more chance of playing like Stoke than barcalona
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  littleworthred on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:54 am

Redditchbluenose86 wrote:There's no game Saturday Point and laugh
Yes there is mate, The day has been re done as a family/supporters fun day. In the morning the under 18's are playing followed by the 1st team v under 21's for the blagging rights of the valley, we have the Cancer research road show down(where you can get help and advice) and the Halloween party in the evening(£2 entry). there will be loads of stuff for the kids and we are asking that you pay what you want to get in to the game with all proceeds going to cancer research. Yes its not a league game but its day's like this that the club really need your support, A good opportunity to meet up and chat about all things Redditch United, ask the chairmen and or staff questions and as some of you guy's have offered meet each other for a pint and a chat.
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ted striker on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:56 am

mattim wrote:Well I must say this thread is very civilized, no rantings and falling out with each other and name calling. It's been an interesting and constructive read so far.

Keep up the good work like this and this forum can get back to what it should be.

Wait till Arsene gets involved, things will be back to normal... Senile Fishing

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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  ROWLY1971 on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:55 am

Finding it funny that if you try and play football, by passing and moving with the ball on the ground more often than not, then people think youre aspiring to be Barca!
Surely between hoofball and Barca MUST leave some common ground for teams and clubs like Redditch to tap in to?

If your fullbacks in his corner with 2 or 3 opposition around him do NOT mess about.... get rid LONG!

If the same full backs got the ball half way line in decent possession, do NOT have 1 option or command that equals hoofball to a head on a stick #9!

Footballs always been about playing in the right area's at the right time.
My point against WBA was that even when we had the ball in football playing areas and moments in the game, we looked like our game plan was hoofball.
If this is Hydes UEFA A coaching format for the team, fair enough, just dont tell us youre looking to play attractive football.

So we have a UEFA A coach at the club.
The pitch isnt Emirates, but WBA could play and pass on it.
The fans would rather see attractive football rather than hoofball.
There IS a happy medium between hoofball and Barca.
The chairman has stated his desire for attractive football.
The balls round and rolls.
We all play in the same coloured kit.

Any reason why we CAN'T play football then that I've missed?
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Re: FOOTBALL..... its in the name

Post  littleworthred on Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:29 am

ROWLY1971 wrote:Finding it funny that if you try and play football, by passing and moving with the ball on the ground more often than not, then people think youre aspiring to be Barca!
Surely between hoofball and Barca MUST leave some common ground for teams and clubs like Redditch to tap in to?

If your fullbacks in his corner with 2 or 3 opposition around him do NOT mess about.... get rid LONG!

If the same full backs got the ball half way line in decent possession, do NOT have 1 option or command that equals hoofball to a head on a stick #9!

Footballs always been about playing in the right area's at the right time.
My point against WBA was that even when we had the ball in football playing areas and moments in the game, we looked like our game plan was hoofball.
If this is Hydes UEFA A coaching format for the team, fair enough, just dont tell us youre looking to play attractive football.

So we have a UEFA A coach at the club.
The pitch isnt Emirates, but WBA could play and pass on it.
The fans would rather see attractive football rather than hoofball.
There IS a happy medium between hoofball and Barca.
The chairman has stated his desire for attractive football.
The balls round and rolls.
We all play in the same coloured kit.

Any reason why we CAN'T play football then that I've missed?
absolutely Right Rowly, The club are looking for attractive football.
The players are being encouraged and trained to play a mix of both passing on the floor football and GOOD long ball passing using the 3 main elements of football, playing Through, Over and Round the opposition.
With Jimmy Deabill now in the squad there is an opportunity to work on some decent long ball passes but not all the time, as the team is still being added to (although almost there now) the team will start to settle and play a good mix of football that is both competitive and attractive.
In no way are we going to be Barca but at the same time we are not going to be a hoof ball team either, we are as you say Very Happy looking for that common ground and as both the Team and the Pitch Improve so will the Football.
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