Redditch United History?????

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Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:56 am

Here Is what I think the Time Line Is, any thoughts please a.s.a.p ?

circa 1891(I have no origin date as yet) - 1905. Redditch Excelsior - Birmingham & District League

1905. Redditch Excelsior disband and Redditch is formed and take there place in the league

1905 - 1908. Redditch - Birmingham & District League

1908, Birmingham & District League becomes Birmingham Combination

1908 - 1915. Redditch - Birmingham Combination

1915 -1919. No Games due to 1st world War

1919 - 1921. Reditch come Back but have changed there name to Redditch Town - Birmingham Combination

1921 - 1929. Redditch Town Join the Birmingham League and change there Name back to Redditch

1929 - 1940. Redditch - Birmingham Combination

1940 - 1945. No Games due to 2nd World War

1945 - 1946. Redditch do not take part

1946 - 1953. Redditch - Birmingham Combination

1953 - 1954. Redditch join Birmingham League and win it

1954 - 1955. Redditch - Southern Division - the League splits in to two, Southern Division and Northern Division

1955 - 1956. Redditch - Division One - the top ten from north and south become division 1 & the rest division 2

1956 - 1960. Redditch - Division two - Redditch were relegated from division 1

1960 - 1962. Redditch - Birmingham League

1962 - 1965. Redditch - West Midlands Regional League

1965 - 1971. Redditch - Premier Division

1971 - 1972. Redditch change there name to Redditch United - Premier Division

1972 - 1976. Redditch United - Southern League first Division(north)

1976 - 1979. Redditch United - Premier Division

Redditch Town?
There was a Redditch Town who Played in The Studley and District League up until 1898, They then Joined The Birmingham Combination but only play for the 1898 - 1899 Season before disbanding.
A whole six Years before the Redditch Excelsior Team disband and become Redditch, It is this Redditch That we as a club descend from I think? And the highlighted Date is where I think the confusion between two different Redditch Town Teams originate. i.e We have been called Redditch Town But we did not start as Redditch Town.
If this is True The only down side is that the First Worcester Senior Cup (1893) ever won was won by a different Team and not by us, the upside is we know more about our past and I have found two Players(forwards) who played for Redditch Excelsior - Walter Gadsby and George Southall. Walter Played for Redditch Excelsior before signing for Small Heath(later became Birmingham) in 1896, then onto Watford before ending his career back at Redditch Excelsior when they disbanded in 1905. George Southall Left Redditch Excelsior to play for Stourbridge before signing for Birmingham in 1905, he then left in 1907 for Halesowen followed by Dudley Town and finnishing in Lye Town.

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  JBS on Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:48 am

1892-93 is the first mention I can see of Redditch Excelsior and you are right the dates do suggest that we emerged from Excelsior rather than Town.

From what I have seen in the past though Redditch Excelsior played in the Birmingham & District Junior League (which is the one which became the Birmingham Combination) from 1982-1893 untill 1904-1905, while Redditch Town were in the main Birmingham & District League from 1891 untill 1896 disappeared for a year (according to your research they were possibly in the Studley League?) and then joined the Birmingham & District Junior League alongside Excelsior in 1897-98 for a year and then as you say disappear untill after WW1.

The fact that Excelsior went in 1905 and 'Redditch' took there place would suggest we cam from them, but according to the Worcestershire FA both Redditch Town and Redditch Excelsior were in the first Worcestershire Senior Cup but the website only seems to state the winner as 'Redditch' with no mention of Town or Excelsior (although wikipedia has it as Redditch Town) and says that 'Redditch' still take part in the competion today which to me suggests that which ever one of the won it is the one that still exists (if you take it as accurate)?

A possible answer could be that Excelsior and Town merged in 1898 taking on Town's historical record and Excelsior's name (as I believe these days if two clubs merge you offcially take on one of the clubs record and the other ceases to exist)? Would explain how we claim the Senior Cup win but the timemline suggests we were Excelsior?

Another ex Excelsior player I have come across BTW is Richard Roberts who went on the play for Newcastle, West Brom, Middlesbourgh and Crystal Palace.

On a side note, if the worst were to ever happen how cool would it be to use the name Redditch Excelsior again? Very Happy

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  porrohman on Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:04 am

That is the COOLEST name.
It means 'even higher'.

Which for us is second from bottom at present.
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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:13 am

Thanks Jbs, I have done some more digging and yes Redditch town went from Birmingham district League after finishing last to the Studley & District League for one season and then to the combination for one year before disbanding.There was one other Redditch Team at the Time called Eadie's Redditch who joined from the Redditch League played the 1889 - 1899 season and then went back to the Redditch League, I don't believe this Team has anything to do with Either of the other Teams.
I don't think we can dispute the facts of where we came from (i.e Excelsior) the question is did Redditch Town join forces? Unless we can find evidence we may never know but I feel we can assume they did as this was common place at the time along with name changes.
It would be nice to revert to that name if we needed to, As next season will be 120 years could we not incorporate Excelsior on the shirt maybe? Or naming the club House the Excelsior Lounge?(just a thought)
Could we now put this on the early years history of the club on the main web site ?

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  JBS on Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:31 am

Would be interesting to know how far back the club itself has records of?

If we did come from Excelsior it would certanly be a really nice touch to bring the name back in some form or another. The Excelsior Lounge does have a nice ring to it, or a stand or something?

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:53 am

JBS wrote:Would be interesting to know how far back the club itself has records of?

If we did come from Excelsior it would certanly be a really nice touch to bring the name back in some form or another. The Excelsior Lounge does have a nice ring to it, or a stand or something?
I have emailed to see if there is anything at the club and will update as and when, I can't see how we did not come from Excelsior as this info seems to be backed up. Town cease and no other team come from them, so unless they joined Excelsior we don't come form them. Unless you take the outside theory that Excelsior disbanded end of story and a new Team turns up and calls them selves Redditch and in some way they were connected to Redditch Town who disband six years previous which would be a dubious connection at the very least.

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  JBS on Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:13 pm

Do we know for sure that Town disbanded? If not there is also an outside chance that they dropped back into another unknown local league in 1898 for a few years and then stepped back up into the B'Ham league following Excelsiors demise.

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:36 pm

JBS wrote:Do we know for sure that Town disbanded? If not there is also an outside chance that they dropped back into another unknown local league in 1898 for a few years and then stepped back up into the B'Ham league following Excelsiors demise.
Redditch is definitely formed in 1905, And can't find redditch town. Info for town disbanding comes from mr. Mick Blakemen. I will keep looking, I am told there are no records at the club.

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:45 am

I have wrote to the Worcestershire Football Association to see if they can help, will update as and when.

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:36 am

Although I have no specific Dates I found out these interesting facts whilst researching our History - at least since we have been called Redditch (1905) we have played our football off Bromsgrove Road around the area that the Valley now stands on, although at the time the fields covered a lot more area than they do now it is fair to assume the pitch was as close to Bromsgrove road as possible so possibly exactly where the Valley is now,(you may not like this bit though) It was known as The Bromsgrove Road Ground! I assume this remained so until 1953 when it became known as The Valley Stadium. At the start of the "Redditch" era (1905) The secretary was a Mr. A. Ledbury of Orchard Street and the President was a Mr G. W. Hobson(I have no more details on them at this time), Our Club House at this Time was The Railway Hotel (who's licensee was a Mr. Federick Shelton 1906-1908) which was previously and presently The Golden Cross.
I have not got as far as when we first get some sort of club House or when our current one was built, If any one has this info to save me some time I would be greatfull.
I will also have some info and pics relating to Eadie's Redditch Fc which I shall post soon, Although no connection to our history I would like to paint a picture of what was going on around the time we were formed and teams that came from Redditch but did not last.

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:08 am

The Worcestershire Football Association have been in touch and have NO info, they have suggested getting in touch with the Birmingham County FA which I have done so we will see.(EDIT) Just had this from them(w.c.f.a) -The following entries appears in our Centenary Brochure:

Winners of the Senior Cup

1893 – 94 Redditch Town beat Oldbury Town 3 - 1

1897 – 98 Oldbury Town beat Redditch 4 - 0 (It doesn’t say Town or Excelsior)

1930 – 31 Redditch beat Cradley Heath 5 - 4

1952 – 53 Hereford U beat Redditch 3 - 2

1974 – 75 Redditch (united) beat Alvechurch 2 - 1 on agg

1975 - 76 Redditch (united) beat Bromsgrove Rovers 6 - 2 on agg
Last two games are over 2 legs

So Somewhere it does say Redditch Town won the First, They don't know which of the two Redditch teams won the second. The only way we can say we came from Town Now is if They did not disband in 1899 and as JBS said came and replaced Excelsior in 1905 as Redditch, 1905 to now is 100% what happens between 1899 and 1905 with Redditch Town is 100% unknown, what happened in 1905 again is a mystery as to who Redditch are or were that year?


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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  JBS on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:08 am

Another thing I have just noticed though, is in your photo galleys there is a certifcate from 1991 from the FA celebrating the clubs 100th Anniversary which would suggest the club was formed in 1891 which is when Redditch Town were formed wheras there is no evidence that Excelsior existed before 1893.

The question would be was it the FA or the club who would of initiated the '100th Anniversary' in 1991?

*Edit: I have e-mailed the FA to ask if they have any information that may be of help*

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  porrohman on Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:04 am

I'm sure there's a framed certificate in the board room from the FA for 100 years membership. Senile
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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:18 am

yep guy's there is a certificate for 100 years old, and if we are from town there is no reason why they were not formed before 1891(so could be older).
The mystery is that there is no evidence as yet that they carried on after 1899 but that is not to say there isn't any in existence, early documentation can be scetchy at the very least e.g the worcs FA know Redditch Town won the first Worcs Senior Cup but can not confirm which of two Redditch Teams were runners up the following year.
I have not heard back from the Birmingham FA and the Worcester FA have no more info than we already know,maybe the FA can fill the gap. I am having trouble locating anything to do with the Redditch League or the Studley and District League, if Town carried on its more than likely they played in either or both of these in the six years between Town Disappearing and Redditch being Formed(this would be our missing years if we came from Town 1899 - 1905).

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:20 am

yep guy's there is a certificate for 100 years old, and if we are from town there is no reason why they were not formed before 1891(so could be older).
The mystery is that there is no evidence as yet that they carried on after 1899 but that is not to say there isn't any in existence, early documentation can be scetchy at the very least e.g the worcs FA know Redditch Town won the first Worcs Senior Cup but can not confirm which of two Redditch Teams were runners up in 1898.
I have not heard back from the Birmingham FA and the Worcester FA have no more info than we already know,maybe the FA can fill the gap. I am having trouble locating anything to do with the Redditch League or the Studley and District League, if Town carried on its more than likely they played in either or both of these in the six years between Town Disappearing and Redditch being Formed(this would be our missing years if we came from Town 1899 - 1905).

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  JBS on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:17 am

Unfortenently the reply I had from the FA doesnt help to clear it up. Decent of them to have a look though. Smile

We have FA Handbooks in our library here at Wembley which go back to 1895 and
include lists of 'Member Clubs'.

I looked through some of them but they didn't help with your query.

In terms of FA Cup appearances we know that 'Redditch Town' entered from 1893-94 to
1896-97 inclusive and then dropped out. 'Redditch' then entered from 1910-11
onwards.

I suspect the '100th Anniversary' certificate was sent by us on the basis of
information supplied by the club.


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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:43 am

JBS wrote:Unfortenently the reply I had from the FA doesnt help to clear it up. Decent of them to have a look though. Smile

We have FA Handbooks in our library here at Wembley which go back to 1895 and
include lists of 'Member Clubs'.

I looked through some of them but they didn't help with your query.

In terms of FA Cup appearances we know that 'Redditch Town' entered from 1893-94 to
1896-97 inclusive and then dropped out. 'Redditch' then entered from 1910-11
onwards.

I suspect the '100th Anniversary' certificate was sent by us on the basis of
information supplied by the club.

I think it Answers the question 100%, Its my belief that there was an assumption from the club (bragging rights for the first W.S Cup ever won and that by name it lends it self to be the main Team in Redditch) that we came from Redditch Town.
All the evidence points to this yet there is no Evidence to say we came from Town, Town Disband six years before Redditch Fc is formed and that's what the Worcester FA say and the FA (I am confident they would have info on Redditch Town between 1887 and 1905 if Town still existed).
Usually when researching the History of something its the origins that lack evidence, Its not that usual that there is evidence of origin and then a gap before the next evidence of existence.
Personally I think the fact is we came from Excelsior as the evidence suggests this, I think its likely that staff and maybe players went from Town to Excelsior but other than that there is no link other than We all started in Redditch.
I am sorry if these findings offend or upset anyone but i'd rather know the truth than adopt made up facts, we should be proud of our history and more so the History of Football in Redditch.

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:00 am

This is a link to the Earliest Photo of Redditch Fc (1913 - 1914) that we have now and possibly the earliest in existence, I believe the intention is to display the original in the club shop.The quality of this copy is not quite as clear as the original but the best we are able to obtain due to the condition of the original which being 98 years old has suffered some Damp and light damage, I have had to scan at the lowest setting possible to achieve a good copy but at the same time keeping the ageing due to light to a minimum (I would hate to be the numb nut that wrecks this one!!!). This photo also holds important facts on staff members and allows us to help piece together the early origins of Redditch United Fc giving us a more detailed look at our History. - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1856382926231&set=a.1761852363026.101034.1140579742&theater

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Captain Carlin on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:28 am

I suggest you approach the Advertiser (or Standard) and get them to print the picture with an article regarding tracing the club history; it may stir a few memories and provide some useful feedback.
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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:30 am

Captain Carlin wrote:I suggest you approach the Advertiser (or Standard) and get them to print the picture with an article regarding tracing the club history; it may stir a few memories and provide some useful feedback.
I will give it ago, tried library and they have got next to nothing. I have also joined The Redditch History forum but unfortunately I seem to be feeding them rather than them helping us. Head against wall
I doubt there is anything or anyone that can add to what we already know, That 100 years cert means nothing as the FA said they assume that the info came from the club in the first place. The club has no records and the ones we have contradict the clubs history as it stands, I will keep digging and keep trying. If someone on here can find Redditch Town between 1896/7 and 1905 then that solves it, I suspect there is nothing more to find. Senile

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Captain Carlin on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:55 am

Just had a look a a Redditch History book in WHSmith.

In the sport section there is a picture of a Redditch Atheletic from 1906-07 (I think). It looks like an 'adult' team and from the comments above seems to fit around the period of uncertainty in your time line.

There is also a picture of Redditch Rovers ......who said it could never happen!!!!!!!!!!!! ....fortunately this seems to be a 'youth' team so can probably be dismissed as having involvement in our history!
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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:13 pm

Captain Carlin wrote:Just had a look a a Redditch History book in WHSmith.

In the sport section there is a picture of a Redditch Atheletic from 1906-07 (I think). It looks like an 'adult' team and from the comments above seems to fit around the period of uncertainty in your time line.

There is also a picture of Redditch Rovers ......who said it could never happen!!!!!!!!!!!! ....fortunately this seems to be a 'youth' team so can probably be dismissed as having involvement in our history!
Yes your right Redditch Rovers were a youth Team who played with the likes of Crabbs Cross Villa(I can supply pictures for other Redditch Teams if people wish), with Regards to Redditch Athletic although a good shout and were around at the period we are looking at they have NO relation to Redditch fc/united and in fact carry on after the first world war to at least 1919(I can not confirm if they played during the war as some teams did) and again I am happy to add pictures of this Team and others to the archive if you guy's would like them included and I will try and research them in a bit more depth in the near future.

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redditch 1906

Post  pember on Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:45 am

Hi, I was interested to see your posts as my Grand father played for a Redditch FC in 1906 to at least 1908-9 season in the Birmingham junior association.
I have a runners up medal for the1906-7 season and winners medals fOr 1907-8 and 1908-09 seasons, quite when he moved there I dont know as I know he played for Aston Villa in 1901 to 1903.
I assume that The Redditch FC , which is engraved on the back of 2 of the medals, is the same as the Redditch United Am I right?

Richard

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Re: Redditch United History?????

Post  Bob Marley on Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:04 am

Hi Richard....thanks for the interesting post...

We will get our resident historian to check the records and come back to you.
We have a small museum at the club shop...come down and take a look...you would be very welcome.
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