Stick or twist?

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  tho101 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:16 am

i read her post nodding in agreement at every criticisism point raised, so regardless of whether or not it was a genuine 1st time visit post, it is a reality post that the majority unfortunatley will agree with.

watched stourbridge v evesham last night, crowd of about 180 paying £6 each to watch a cup game, free parking, decent game, an ok atmosphere, definatley walked away thinking i would visit again............ i watched redditch about 2 months ago and said i wouldnt go back until major changes were made regarding facilities/players/management/ticket prices etc, and it looks like alot of regulars are doing the same

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:27 am

I'm not disputing the issued raised as i also agree with that laura12 said, however, i just think it's unlikely that for a first visit anywhere there are no positives at all that have been taken from her visit to the valley!

Take a look at tho101's post, i'm assuming that was one of the first times they've gone to stourbridges ground, whether as a neutral or following redditch, and they've come back with only positives.

I could be wrong but it seems like a post to prove a point rather than an experience.

Who cares anyway?! They loyalties of the hardcore fans are being pushed to the limits... something has to give!
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  arsene on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:16 am

I agree the loyal fans are being pushed to the limit. For the first time in my "Redditch United Career" (leaving aside the CH incident!) I am beginning to wonder wheter I can really be arsed to make the effort for a home game on Saturday. There is no atmosphere at the ground these days, the feeling is, it seems to me, one of a club in decline which is sad considering the high hopes we had at the takeover. I wish I could be more positive but at the moment it seems that everything and everyone are just going through the motions. I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

Oh, well, got it off my chest! No doubt I'll be there on Saturday!
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  mattim on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:20 am

arsene wrote:I agree the loyal fans are being pushed to the limit. For the first time in my "Redditch United Career" (leaving aside the CH incident!) I am beginning to wonder wheter I can really be arsed to make the effort for a home game on Saturday. There is no atmosphere at the ground these days, the feeling is, it seems to me, one of a club in decline which is sad considering the high hopes we had at the takeover. I wish I could be more positive but at the moment it seems that everything and everyone are just going through the motions. I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

Oh, well, got it off my chest! No doubt I'll be there on Saturday!

I think this about sums it up.

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Leethall on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:57 am

mattim wrote:
arsene wrote:I agree the loyal fans are being pushed to the limit. For the first time in my "Redditch United Career" (leaving aside the CH incident!) I am beginning to wonder wheter I can really be arsed to make the effort for a home game on Saturday. There is no atmosphere at the ground these days, the feeling is, it seems to me, one of a club in decline which is sad considering the high hopes we had at the takeover. I wish I could be more positive but at the moment it seems that everything and everyone are just going through the motions. I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

Oh, well, got it off my chest! No doubt I'll be there on Saturday!

I think this about sums it up.

Spot on. I am not going on Saturday as I am off out but if I was going to watch any football I would be going to watch Stratford v Loughborough University.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  rawlings09 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:25 am

arsene wrote: I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.


I think we need a clear mission statement of the ambitions of the Club in general! At the time of the takeover, it was thought that we would be playing conference football within 5 years, 2 seasons later and we're playing in the Evo Stik south infront of an average home gate of 198? (fingers?) which leaves us with 3 years to complete 2 promotions and confirmation that those ambitions where, as most of us knew anyway, ridiculous.

Im trying to put my finger on where it went wrong? I believe it could be that in the efforts to improve things off the pitch, what happens on the pitch has been completely neglected, the powers that be seem to have forgotten the most important thing to every last person on this forum and every last person who ambles through the gates at a home game and that is we are supporters of Redditch United FOOTBALL Club! We go to the Valley Stadium to watch FOOTBALL, we have a drink in the bar after the final whistle and talk about the FOOTBALL that we've just watched! I can't speak for everyone here, but i don't care much for Corporate deals, money makers and sponsorship deals and the business side of things is something not many of us grasp properly but it seems to have engulfed both sides.

I go to watch football, i come back to watch football! Football Football fluffing football! If we were all business men, millionaires and corporate people then we'd go in our droves to the club, because the business would be good and we'd all understand it and be happy, but we're football fans, and the football is sh*t, and we're not happy! Off the pitch could be the best we've ever known it to be, on the pitch, it isn't and i think this is the main reason things are how they are.

Redditch United has the potential to make money, and you can have the best function room in the world, the best ground in the world, the best 3g facilities and whatever else, but it's what happens on the pitch that will determine the future of the club.

I could be wrong though!
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  laura12 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:30 am

rawlings09 wrote:
laura12 wrote:I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

With all due respect, this to me seems like a post from a disgruntled Redditch fan, for the reasons that it seems that the points that have been highlighted are the points that have been recently discussed on here, i know the club isn't any great shakes at the moment, but it's incredibly rare that you'll come back from a game with no positives at all?

For your first visit, you've learned the names of two players, from an out of date player profile in the programme? or did you ask a fan? And surely if you watch a lot of local football then you should be more than used to hoofball?

To me, this is either a redditch fan posting, or we REALLY are up the sh*t creek if this is how an outsider would see it Head against wall









Hello, I am not a redditch supporter atall, I watch alot of non league football. Not my first ever visit to the valley stadium, like i said it was my first time this season.

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Bob Marley on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:32 am

Yes, Rawlings09...we tried the 'concentrate on the football things' and not the infrastructure to support it...it almost killed the club, as you well know.
The members of TRUST will continue to pay for this approach directly until next May.

We all know by now the running costs of the club...to get anywhere close in this league, playing budget is 800/week, minimum.

The club has very little income outside gate admission.
The examples I hear of Stratford etc normally have a tidy little 3G pitch being used 6-10 hours per day.

Mr Swan has brought a financial realism to the club....that has been missing forever....the realism is that the end product generated from the income is well below par and what fans have been 'artificially' been served over the last 15 years....sad, but true.

I do not believe Mr Redhead is the right man for the job...said it from his 1st term in charge....I still believe it now.

Mr Hyde was a gem...kept everyone interested and involved, even when the performances were below par.
People on here slated me for that comment....then use Bumsgrove as the example with Keith Draper openly communicating at every opportunity....at our level, the communication levels are very small....Mr Redhead is not this kind of character.

At the very minimal, fans need to be involved, acknowledged, communciated to.....they can not turn up week in week out doing a guessing game of whos who...no relationship with the team/players/coaches.

The club is in a downward spiral until this is addressed.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Leethall on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:37 pm

Bob Marley wrote:Yes, Rawlings09...we tried the 'concentrate on the football things' and not the infrastructure to support it...it almost killed the club, as you well know.
The members of TRUST will continue to pay for this approach directly until next May.

We all know by now the running costs of the club...to get anywhere close in this league, playing budget is 800/week, minimum.

The club has very little income outside gate admission.
The examples I hear of Stratford etc normally have a tidy little 3G pitch being used 6-10 hours per day.

Mr Swan has brought a financial realism to the club....that has been missing forever....the realism is that the end product generated from the income is well below par and what fans have been 'artificially' been served over the last 15 years....sad, but true.

I do not believe Mr Redhead is the right man for the job...said it from his 1st term in charge....I still believe it now.

Mr Hyde was a gem...kept everyone interested and involved, even when the performances were below par.
People on here slated me for that comment....then use Bumsgrove as the example with Keith Draper openly communicating at every opportunity....at our level, the communication levels are very small....Mr Redhead is not this kind of character.

At the very minimal, fans need to be involved, acknowledged, communciated to.....they can not turn up week in week out doing a guessing game of whos who...no relationship with the team/players/coaches.

The club is in a downward spiral until this is addressed.

Can't wait for you to see how it is when you come back over the pond. It is ok saying that you can't keep throwing money at the footballing side BM but at present that must be happening where Mr Swan is supplementing these costs from what the club is generating. Something is rather Fishing at present down at the club and the atmosphere has gone and I am afraid to say I do not think this will be back very quickly and neither will a lot of fans.

The club has a choice, treat its customers with the respect they deserve and listen to what they are saying or lose them to other options available in the area. Plenty of better options and when money is tight all around then people will spend it on something more appealing however much you defend them from afar.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  mattim on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:20 pm

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say Bob but I think this thread is moving more in the direction of discussing our lack of support and the reasons for it. I'm all for the club being self sufficient but the fact is in order for this to happen we need a lot more paying spectators than we are currently getting. I've followed the club for 40 years and I don't recall crowds getting so low, or so many 'diehards' giving up.

The main reason for this is that we are in to, I reckon, our third season of seemingly endless struggle. In the final BSN season when we were losing every week there was a great 'Dunkirk spirit' amongst the fans and we sung even in defeat. That seems to have completely disappeared and the Valley is a pretty miserable place now it has to be said.

First and foremost we need some results and performances but we do desperately need some realism from the top. You remarked on the Swan's 'financial realism' but from where I'm sitting it seems far from that. We need to be reducing entrance fees, scrapping the car park charges, thinking up various special offers and doing whatever else anyone can think of to get bodies through the gate. At a time when we need to be attracting new support we can't even keep what we've got. If things carry on as they are and even more supporters become disenchanted I can honestly see our crowds down to double figures.

There are a lot of things the Swans have done that needed doing but they are in danger of throwing away all that good work. We will be a financially realistic club playing in an empty stadium the way it's going.

I don't think the fans are that bothered about whether or not Simon Redhead communicates with them, he just needs to get on with it and win some games. It's others at the club who need to address that issue and start getting the fans back on board.

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  del boy on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:57 pm

mattim wrote:
The main reason for this is that we are in to, I reckon, our third season of seemingly endless struggle.

And the rest!!!!

I'd put it more at 7-8 years of constant struggle and decline.

There has been very little to get excited about on the pitch for the best part of 10 years. Constant relegation battles, almost non-existent cup runs in any competition that counts. It's been a painfully long time since I've genuinely looked forward to attending games.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Mrs Moor on Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:39 pm

Bob Marley wrote:The club has very little income outside gate admission..

That's why the club was split into two parts, why can't you address this and why do you continually ignore the fact the community side of things makes money.

Bob Marley wrote:Mr Swan has brought a financial realism to the club....that has been missing forever....the realism is that the end product generated from the income is well below par and what fans have been 'artificially' been served over the last 15 years....sad, but true.

Mr Swan has divided the club into two parts, one loses money one makes money. Why did he do this Bob and why do most of his press releases focus on football while his efforts seem only to focus on the money making community club.

Bob Marley wrote: I do not believe Mr Redhead is the right man for the job...said it from his 1st term in charge....I still believe it now. Mr Hyde was a gem...kept everyone interested and involved, even when the performances were below par.

Hyde walked away because of Swan, your chasing your tail again Bob. Head against wall

Bob Marley wrote:People on here slated me for that comment....then use Bumsgrove as the example with Keith Draper openly communicating at every opportunity....at our level, the communication levels are very small....Mr Redhead is not this kind of character.

Keith has to do that to big himself up, Graham is the powerhouse behind Bromsgrove and he say's very little. Anyway Swan should have a press officer at Redditch because they are a much bigger club than Bromsgrove.

Bob Marley wrote:The club is in a downward spiral until this is addressed.

So address it instead of posting waffle, you can start by explaining why the club has been split into two. One part generating income while the other generates very little. Do you even know where the profits made by the community club are going. Head against wall

clown

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Redditchbluenose86 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:49 am

Mrs Moor wrote:

So address it instead of posting waffle, you can start by explaining why the club has been split into two. One part generating income while the other generates very little. Do you even know where the profits made by the community club are going. Head against wall

clown

If you know something MM, then please share with the rest of us where the money is going?.....


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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Mr Bonehead on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:56 am

I do not understand why people assume that income generated by way of a 3G pitch etc, would lead to an increased playing budget. I seem to remember Mr Swan saying the playing budget was set and any further income would be spent "in the community." We are constantly reminded of the financial outlay the owners have made, so is not likely they would want to see some return on that? I don't know if what Mrs Moor says about the Club being split into two companies is correct but if it is then it would lend credence to the above. Of course MM might be making it up and what I have written could be 100% incorrect. Please look at what happened to Halesowen Harriers who were a club with dwindling attendancies and now no longer exist but have a 3G pitch being used seven days a week. I bet "the community" love it.

The reality is it's Chris Swan's club for which he has paid a lot of money. The couple of times I have met him he seemed very genuine but I guess he will do as he pleases with the club.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  ted striker on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:07 am

ted striker wrote:If no financial support is maintained, attendances would, I believe, fall more rapidly than they are now, the club would quite possibly (maybe almost certainly) end up in freefall, dropping into and through the SL1S&W or SL1C (more on that in a second)

I completely forgot to go back to my other point, which was, in the event that we get relegated from this division, anybody care to take a punt on where we'd end up? Look at the geographical spread of the clubs in the divisions directly below us, and for me it's anybody's guess.

We might be relegated and not know for weeks which way we fall, which would put us behind in terms of player recruitment for the following season, compounding the problems that our lack of financial wherewithal would cause - so I think that whatever happens, the Swans need to ensure that we stay up, even if that means (again) chucking more money into the pot for the closing stages, should it come to that.

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  RockDJ on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:13 am

I really don’t want to get into a debate on the ins and outs of the accounts as they will be posted at Companies House like any other company, but just to clarify Redditch United Football Club In The Community is a registered charity, which is obviously non-profit making and subjected to even more scrutiny than a general bank account.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Mrs Moor on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:30 am

RockDJ wrote:I really don’t want to get into a debate on the ins and outs of the accounts as they will be posted at Companies House like any other company, but just to clarify Redditch United Football Club In The Community is a registered charity, which is obviously non-profit making and subjected to even more scrutiny than a general bank account.

Hi RockDJ

I simply ask the question why the need to seperate the club into two factions, i am sure even you would agree registered charities are very fashionable at present.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/city-pay-culture-has-spread-to-charities-union-says-1817725.html

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Mrs Moor on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:14 am

Mr Bonehead wrote:Of course MM might be making it up and what I have written could be 100% incorrect. Please look at what happened to Halesowen Harriers who were a club with dwindling attendancies and now no longer exist but have a 3G pitch being used seven days a week. I bet "the community" love it.

I recently watched this programme.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17564251

It suggested that some companies offered apprenticeships when they did not have jobs to offer. A whistleblower then suggests that each position is worth 9k. A very good watch I am sure you would agree.

I then read.

http://www.redditchutdfc.co.uk/news/redditch-united-football-club-joins-new-college-in-redditch-and-local-businesses-to-back-apprenticeships-for-local-youngsters/

So I wondered if Redditch United really had 20 genuine jobs to offer or did they fall into the Panorama Category. Either way at an alleged 9k a pop for each position that’s around 180k if Panorama’s whistleblower is correct.

I then find that the club has been split into two companies, so i ask Bob why Head against wall

I have also been trying to find out which company owns what and how many people are paid by who. Would the 3G pitch be owned by the football club or the hived off charity operating separately but incorporating the clubs name. Does anyone know.

I am not suggesting anything is wrong nor god forbid would I suggest any wrong doing, I am however questioning the naivety of Bob.

I can only guess at the income for the “charity” and where this income goes but as a football supporter I have to ask what’s going on and more importantly why.

Bob seems to duck the issue over and over again, I wonder why.

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  rawlings09 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:43 am

Mrs Moor wrote:
Bob seems to duck the issue over and over again, I wonder why.

Probably because he, like many of us, don't know!

You come on here and expect us to know the answers to your many questions when it seems like you know more than all of us. We don't even know who's signed on a weekly basis so the chances of us knowing the ins and outs are slim!

But, you continue to come on here and ask us things we don't know and keep your sources and real identity secret, and it's probably all a big jolly for you, it does make me wonder if your posts are genuine or whether you're spouting bullshit.

Either way, keep it coming, gives me something different to read on here Smile
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  RockDJ on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:24 am

Mrs Moor wrote:

It suggested that some companies offered apprenticeships when they did not have jobs to offer. A whistleblower then suggests that each position is worth 9k. A very good watch I am sure you would agree.

I then read.

http://www.redditchutdfc.co.uk/news/redditch-united-football-club-joins-new-college-in-redditch-and-local-businesses-to-back-apprenticeships-for-local-youngsters/

So I wondered if Redditch United really had 20 genuine jobs to offer or did they fall into the Panorama Category. Either way at an alleged 9k a pop for each position that’s around 180k if Panorama’s whistleblower is correct.

This was a joint venture between RUFC and RBC -Between them I'm sure that there would of been 20 genuine jobs, in the end though this didn't take off.

Mrs Moor wrote:
I then find that the club has been split into two companies, so i ask Bob why Head against wall

I have also been trying to find out which company owns what and how many people are paid by who. Would the 3G pitch be owned by the football club or the hived off charity operating separately but incorporating the clubs name. Does anyone know.

I'm sure this information will be in the accounts at Companies House but basically it is that we have charity account, both are audited and are quiet separate. Next time you come down to the football club, look me out and I'll try and give you a better answer than a few lines.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Mrs Moor on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:32 am

RockDJ wrote:
Mrs Moor wrote:

It suggested that some companies offered apprenticeships when they did not have jobs to offer. A whistleblower then suggests that each position is worth 9k. A very good watch I am sure you would agree.

I then read.

http://www.redditchutdfc.co.uk/news/redditch-united-football-club-joins-new-college-in-redditch-and-local-businesses-to-back-apprenticeships-for-local-youngsters/

So I wondered if Redditch United really had 20 genuine jobs to offer or did they fall into the Panorama Category. Either way at an alleged 9k a pop for each position that’s around 180k if Panorama’s whistleblower is correct.

This was a joint venture between RUFC and RBC -Between them I'm sure that there would of been 20 genuine jobs, in the end though this didn't take off.

Mrs Moor wrote:
I then find that the club has been split into two companies, so i ask Bob why Head against wall

I have also been trying to find out which company owns what and how many people are paid by who. Would the 3G pitch be owned by the football club or the hived off charity operating separately but incorporating the clubs name. Does anyone know.

I'm sure this information will be in the accounts at Companies House but basically it is that we have charity account, both are audited and are quiet separate. Next time you come down to the football club, look me out and I'll try and give you a better answer than a few lines.

Cheers RockDJ

I am just curious why the club split into two, what was the logic behind the move etc.

That said how nice to recieve a polite reply and enter into a debate with some who is 100% genuine without the usual swearing and name calling.

I am not sure supporters should have to wait for the accounts to find out what's going on but at the end of the day if that's the process introduced at the club then so be it.

Once again thank you for the reply.

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Bob Marley on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:31 pm

Next time your down the Reds MM...find me out so I can call you a sh*t stirring bell end to your face.

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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  Bob Marley on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:35 pm

Sorry MM...forgot...you don't go to the Valley.

Too much Budweiser.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  in2thevalley on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:16 am

arsene wrote:I agree the loyal fans are being pushed to the limit. For the first time in my "Redditch United Career" (leaving aside the CH incident!) I am beginning to wonder wheter I can really be arsed to make the effort for a home game on Saturday. There is no atmosphere at the ground these days, the feeling is, it seems to me, one of a club in decline which is sad considering the high hopes we had at the takeover. I wish I could be more positive but at the moment it seems that everything and everyone are just going through the motions. I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

Oh, well, got it off my chest! No doubt I'll be there on Saturday!

Arsene, spot on with your opinions, I feel exactly the same and have decided not to go to todays game and in future be more selective of the games i wish to watch (if at all any!).
I said from the the start of the season that the atmosphere was very different to that of last season, there seemed to be no comunication letting fans know who was coming or who had left. I know players move on but the previous players had a good rapport with the fans and so did the managemnet team. This, this season is non existant born out by the trip to Nantwich, I will say no more on that!
It saddens me because there is a lot of potential in the club,but it needs a massive overhaul, and while there is no communication from management etc, this will drive fans away, I also agree with the price, £10 is expensive at the moment considering the financial climate that we are enduring, perhaps a price reduction to £7 or £8 may make one or two people return but I doubt it.
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Re: Stick or twist?

Post  underground on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:59 am

Not wishing to interupt the mature conversation between moor and marley but there is a interesting piece in the daily mirror today about fans being ripped off in the prem/leagues,maybe the club should read it. I could repeat most of it but the main point is without fans you have nothing,so how does this relate to RUFC?.
The club expect the fans/people of Redditch to back the club and the fans expect to watch good/winning football,chicken and egg maybe? No not really,without fans you have nothing. The club in the first instance need to decide wether they are going to have a winning competetive team or a sustainable team, if its a winning team (as in line with Swans 5 yr plan) then fine keep it £10 but you will have to spend money to start with to generate the interest i.e winning team, if its sustainable your after then fine but its your experiment not ours and will generate no excitment therefore you need to reduce the gate to £6 because thats all its worth if its worth anything. Gimmics like football in the community have no interest amongst fans and has achieved nothing for our club, what has new college,ymca and apprentiships gained the club? Nothing. Its time to stop playing with marital toys/fix's and start being serious about running a football club that has been running for over 120 years,if not please,please sell it to someone who is,because if you dont you wont have fans and we wont have a club. The fans will back you 100% if you do it the right way, but with what all our fans are saying/seeing right now shows you are not. On a side note, it will also be wise to treat those that have been with and helped the club for many years with a bit more respect.
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Re: Stick or twist?

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